40k Xenos Rampant
Collecting stats for my 40k figures.
The Orks:
- Sluggas (Berserk Infantry) one of
- Shootas (Light Infantry plus a heavy weapon) and some
- Nobs (reduced model count Heavy Infantry, Close Combat)
- Orks – and realised that maybe using Berserker profiles as the starting point for most of the force made sense
- Nobs Heavy Armour, Large Units, Reduced Model count (5 Nobs for 10SP) and the blades upgrade.
- Thinking a Warboss gets the Really Heavy Armour and the Monomolecular blades upgrade to represent his monstrous power claw he’d be a 5SP reduced model count (1)
Space Marines:
- Marines in 24 points. There were two units of Elites, one with Armour Piercing and one Close Combat.
- The CC unit had an “Inspiring Leader” – the Emperor’s Champion.
- The Scouts were Veteran recon infantry.
- Assault Marines might have been better off with Skimmer (plus High Mobility?) rather then Flyer rules?
- Marines *may* be better represented as Heavy Infantry, Large Units, Reduced model count (plus some upgrades) and leave the Elites for a single squad of Terminators or Veterans.
Other considerantions for the web
The author suggests Berserk Infantry for Orks. I’d presume that Nurgle marines would also be Elite Infantry.
Remember this is a game with like 6 profiles.
All Space Marines are Elite Infantry and in sch abstract game they will all be the same..
This is just not kind of game to differentiate giant PA guy from Giant PA guy with the horn and bad smell..If you want to keep flavor in the rules this is not for you obviously.
I agree that DR/XR doesn’t distinguish between minor details, but you can add quite a bit of variety and flavour to DR/XR units using the fantastical rules in Dragon Rampant.
If we take orks, for example, you could create a pretty vicious close-combat squad by using Bellicose Foot, Venomous and Shiny Armour; that would fit the melee-oriented sort of ork quite nicely. You can add Flying for jump packs too.
Or if you want innaccurate shooters with deadly weapons (e.g. orks with bolt guns), you can give a DR Light or Heavy Missiles unit Venomous for shooting. The lack of the free shoot action will make quite a difference over the course of a game.
And then you can use the magic rules to simulate technology in various DR troop types.
When you add the DR and XR troop types together, you’ve got a fair range even before you start adding in fantastical rules. Off the top of my head, there are about 18 different unit types available before you consider vehicles – and then lots of fantastical rules and upgrades to modify them. So the total number of possible variations must run into the hundreds.
The author of the rules answered in a similar stance. Just for your info read below. I will try the rules at the weekend and see if I like them . will write up a small report then.
Quote: To be honest, I -wouldn’t- represent the difference between things like lasguns and autoguns. Their effectiveness is roughly similar in-game anyway. I’d hesitate to even mark a difference between lasguns and boltguns; units armed with boltguns are often Reduced Model Units and so their firepower’s disproportionately heavy to the number of guns being fired anyway.
Plasma weapons (and other weapon options) would best be represented by giving a unit possessing them an appropriate upgrade. Plasma weapons are excellent at killing armoured infantry or light vehicles, so the Armour-Piercing upgrade is a good fit. Grenade launchers would also work well as Armour-Piercing, because the frag option is only a slight step up from a lasgun in effectiveness, but a krak grenade hurts a lot more. Flamers and heavy stubbers could both be Squad Support Weapons, since they enhance the anti-personnel capability of the squad significantly.
And then there are combinations of upgrades. Heavier weapons, like heavy bolters and plasma cannons, also fit into the anti-light vehicle and armoured infantry category, and would probably be Armour-Piercing Squad Support Weapons.
Lascannons and multi-meltas are pretty straight-forward – Anti-Tank all the way.
One of the key things to remember is that Dragon Rampant and Warhammer 40,000 are very different games with very different base assumptions.
Sometimes it seems like 40k still thinks it’s the skirmish game it was in the Rogue Trader/early 2nd Ed era, despite having been a mass battle game since at least the start of 3rd Ed (I’ll admit I’ve never played 8th Ed). Each squad member is still treated as an individual character with a life of their own. Each model moves, fights and dies individually, even if each subsequent edition has tried to make combat resolution for large numbers of models more streamlined. The same can be said about Warhammer and Age of Sigmar, so it seems to be a Games Workshop quirk. Even 1st and 2nd Edition Epic treated each vehicle and stand of troops as an independent entity (although Epic 40,000 moved away from that a little with its Firepower rules).
Oddly enough, Dragon Rampant’s focus on units as the smallest entity is more fitting for a mass battle game than GW’s every-model-is-sacred approach. Rampant, along with actual mass battle games like Mantic’s Warpath and Kings of War, or various Warlord historical rule sets, have units as the smallest entity on the battlefield. In that kind of ruleset, it doesn’t matter if the sergeant of a squad of Imperial Guard has a bolt pistol and chainsword instead of a boltgun, because although it makes a big difference as to how he fights, it doesn’t impact on the squad that massively, so its not worth spending points on. However, if the squad has a pair of special and heavy weapons that complement each other, and maybe the sergeant’s weapon option complements them as well (e.g. plasma gun and heavy bolter, plus a sergeant’s plasma pistol, all fall into the same general category of killiness), the squad’s overall effectiveness has changed substantially, meaning it’s worth throwing an extra point or two at the unit to tweak its rules.
As a specific example, a Leman Russ battle tank has (in its most stereotypical loadout) a battle cannon, lascannon and two heavy bolters, plus a storm bolter on the top. That’s a great all-round tank, capable of killing pretty much anything that comes close to it. However, that firepower falls into two categories: if you attack a vehicle, only the lascannon and the turret gun really matter, but they hit really hard; if you attack infantry, the lascannon will vaporise one poor bugger, the battlecannon will dismember a few more, and the heavy bolters and storm bolter harass the rest. In either case, the tank’s unleashing a lot of firepower at a target and causing an immense amount of pain, but the game effect is that it’s inflicting a lot of damage to a single enemy unit. In Xenos Rampant terms, it’s a standard Heavy Armoured Vehicle with the Anti-Tank rule. Even without the sponsons or cupola weapon, its effectiveness barely changes.
Having run Rampant for a number of life-long Warhammer and 40k players, it seems that some of the base assumptions of Games Workshop games are quite ingrained. One Bretonnian player couldn’t comprehend that his Single Model Unit Bretonnian Lord couldn’t join a nearby unit of Knights of the Realm and was, in fact, just as effective on his own as they were en masse, because they were both the same unit type in the Dragon Rampant rulebook.
All that being said, Xenos Rampant isn’t a -perfect- fit for every 40k unit and weapon loadout, and isn’t intended to be, but most codex units can probably be hammered into a Xenos Rampant unit type without losing the flavour of the 41st Millennium. End of quote.
Example 24 point Space Marine detachment.
Squad of 5 Dreadnoughts: Elite Infantry, Slow. 5 Points
Unit of 10 Space Marine stands: Heavy Infantry, Heavy Weapons, Increased Squad Size. 6 Points
Unit of 10 Assault Marine stands: Heavy Infantry, Assault Doctrine, Close Quarters Doctrine, Increased Squad Size, Mobile, Special Insertion. 7 Points
Squad of 5 Predator Tanks: Light Infantry, Armour-Piercing, Heavy Weapons, Increased Squad Size, Reduced Model Unit (5 instead of 10) 6 Points
Example 24 point Epic Imperial Guard Detachment
Squad of 5 Leman Russ Tanks: Heavy Infantry, Heavy Weapons, Increased Squad Size, Reduced Model Unit (5 instead of 10) 6 Points
4X 10 Stands of IG Infantry: Light Infantry, Increased Squad Size, Slow. 2 Points each for 8 Points.
Squad of 5 Basilisks: Support Infantry, Artillery, Indirect Fire. 8 Points.
Squad of 5 Sentinel Recon Walkers: Recon Infantry. 2 Points.
24 Points Epic Space Orks!
4X 10 Stands of Ork Boyz: Berserk Infantry, Increased Squad Size, Slow. 2 Points each for 8 Points.
5 Stands of Flash Gitz: Support Infantry. 5 Points.
5 Stands of Sneaky Gitz: Recon Infantry. 2 Points.
15 (!) Stands of Grotz: Militia Rabble, Mob. 2 Points.
Squad of 5 Trukkz: Soft-Skin Vehicle, Transport (10). 4 Points.
One Gargant!: Fighting Vehicle, Green Crew (HA!), Force Field 1, Slow, Unstable. 3 Points.
Space Marines
HQ Squad: Elite Infantry, Slow, Close Quarters Doctrine, Combat Medic. 6 Points
Biker Squad: Heavy Infantry, A-P, Increased Squad Size, Mobile, Reduced Model Unit. 6 Points
Dreadnought: Fighting Vehicle, Light Armoured Vehicle, Slow, Mechanoid. 3 Points
Heavy Weapons Squad: Heavy Infantry, Heavy Weapon. 4 Points
Tac Squad: Heavy Infantry, A-P. 3 Points
Close Assault Squad: Heavy Infantry, A-P, Close Quarters Doctrine. 2 Points
