Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 1

This is the 1994 interview we did with Admiral TOPP, and it is the first time it is published anywhere. You may order a copy of this on videotape. Details on our website.

SHARKHUNTERS: Where were you when you heard that the war was over?

Admiral TOPP: I was at that time, commanding the submarine U-2513, Type XXI boat, and I left Germany with this boat 1st of May and we reached the Bay of Oslo and there we heard of the surrender, the 8th of May, and then we handed over our boat to the British – that was against our tradition because the tradition of the Navy, from the First World War was – if you lose the war, then you sink your boat.

Anyhow, that was not possible because we got an order from Dönitz and he said at no case sink the boat because only under strict compliance with the rules of the treaty, we can save the lives of hundreds of thousands of Germans who are fleeing into the western part of Germany because on the other part there was murder, rape…..and by following the rules of the treaty, it was able to delay the end of the war for two days and that meant that more than many hundreds of thousands of people were able to cross the border. So we handed over the boat to the British, people were able to cross the border and so we handed over the boat to the British.

If you want to know something about the fate of my boat – it was lateron given to the United States and there it was with the ASW school at the Keys and one day I met somebody, an engineering officer of the United States Navy and in his cabin he showed me some pictures on the wall and I found the picture of my boat and he had been the Chief Engineer of my boat U-2513, and he told me a very interesting story.

This boat, because of its high underwater speed, was chosen to test the new hydroplane system of the nuclear powered submarine that were under construction and that was so important that one day President Truman come on board and he was welcomed by the Captain and then they went to sea. When they had the normal depth, they submerged and then the Commanding Officer reported to the President – we are now ready for the test. The President went into the control room, surrounded by his bodyguards. Then full speed ahead, and then there was a blackout! You couldn’t see anything but the Engineering Officer succeeded in bringing back the lights and you could see again and you saw the situation – there was the President, surrounded by his bodyguards and they taken their pistols to protect him from the Germans! All those things that had to do with German submarines went into their minds and so they thought it was a coup d’etat! A coup d’etat against the President, but he survived. But that was the last story of my boat.

SHARKHUNTERS: The Type XXI was a sensational submarine. Can you tell us something about its capabilities and the effect it might have had on the Battle of the Atlantic if it been introduced earlier?

Admiral TOPP: The main thing was – it had a higher speed, underwater speed, a maximum speed of 16 knots and its endurance was considerable. It had a higher displacement of course, but the main thing was that it had a new sonar called the Niebellung. With this sonar, you were able to detect with active impulses and by passive hearing, you were able to detect and follow the course of the target. That was new for us because in the old submarines, we had only a listening device, the GHG it was called, and that was very good for the passive part. We could hear the noise of propellers of convoys thirty miles away, but we were not able to send active impulses. That was not possible. So I think the combination – sonar, high underwater speed and the long endurance submerged was a great advantage compared with the old type of submarine, but when you ask me if it would have changed the course of the Battle of the Atlantic considerably in any direction - I would say no. I can say it with some experience because I have not only commanding officer of a Type XXI, before I took over the boat, I had been commissioned to make exercises with the boat and it took – in the convoy that was running in the Baltic at that time, we tried to find out if we could revive the old, as we say, Rüdel Taktik (wolfpack tactic), but that was not possible because it was always submerged, it never saw the sun and light and the daylight.

It was always dark. When you left the harbor and when you came back, it was always submerged – we had the snorkel at that time.

And with the communication, you were not able to communicate with other boats and to give them bearings and then bring them together with the convoy, so there was no revival of old tactics. It was a single operator – the XXI Type boat. It could dive more deep than the other boats, so the security of the boat was better. It could evade when it was attacked very quickly with the high speed. Those were certainly great advantages but to increase the number of sunken ships perhaps to a certain degree, but not considerable. It wouldn’t have changed fundamentally, the Battle in the Atlantic.

SHARKHUNTERS: So you think it would not have changed.

Admiral TOPP: It would not have changed.

SHARKHUNTERS: How deep could a Type XXI dive?

Admiral TOPP: Well, you know there are several depths – there is the security depth. That is something like 400 meters but the normal depth, but the normal was 250 meters. It was very impressive, but the main advantage compared to the other boats was the high underwater speed. You could chase the convoys, because with the sonar, you had the locations of the destroyer that was attacking you.

SHARKHUNTERS: Is it true that the computer could track multiple targets, more than one at a time.

Admiral TOPP: I cannot answer correctly this question, but we had no computer on board but we were able with the sonar to track several targets but you could only pin point one.

SHARKHUNTERS: Now, you were an architect after the war. Can you tell us something about the Memorial at Laboe we are going to see later this week? Can you tell us from the veteran’s point of view and from the architect’s point of view? Can you tell us about the design and meaning of that memorial?

Admiral TOPP: I think you might think of the Submarine Memorial at Möltenort. I think it is a very good memorial from the architectural design and it is very, very impressive to see the bronze tables with all the names of those who lost their lives and when you pass them, these tables, you – well, it reminds you of these time, the time of the war and how many lost their lives and under what conditions, and you have the imagination to get an idea under what conditions they lost their lives and I think it is very impressive, this memorial.

You know I had been myself, participated in the rebuilding and restoring the other Navy Memorial at Laboe and there we had different and difficult discussions about how we should prepare it and how we should give it the look that would draw the right feelings of it by the visitors and I was against showing all the ships that had been sunk during the war, on the wall, and from my point of view they should have taken an artist who has the capability to not to show what material was lost but what in mind was lost. You can only do that with inspiration and artistic measures. You cannot do it with material.

SHARKHUNTERS: What about the REUBEN JAMES?

Admiral TOPP: We saw only when we had attacked, an explosion and after that, a second very, very strong explosion, and then we didn’t see anything. We saw that another destroyer, the NIBLACK as we knew later, came to the aid. Though I had at that time, the possibility again to attack because in this situation, another ship coming to help those who survived, it would have been an easy game to launch another torpedo and to attack again, but I didn’t want to disturb the rescue actions and therefore we left and as I wrote in my book, years later after the war, I read about the dramatic situation on board with the loss of all the men – 100 people, and the dramatic conditions under which they lost their lives. The second explosions was the depth charges was catastrophic and they were like balls thrown through the air into the fire of the burning oil and it was – I never forget it.

This first-person memory of World War II will continue next month in KTB #173, but you can order the entire videotape right now. Ask for Videotape H-50, the 1994 interview with Konter Admiral Erich Topp. Send $30 for each tape plus $5 shipping, and the tape will be sent to you right away. Naturally, your complete satisfaction is guaranteed or your money is promptly refunded.

More Adm. Topp

Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 1
Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 2
Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 3
Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 4
Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 5
Interview with Adm. Erich Topp Part 6