Duke Siefried

MWAN Interview with "Duke" Siefried

By Randy Porter

MWAM: What attracted you to the area of historical wargaming with miniatures? How did you get involved with the hobby?

Duke: My Father was a 54mm collector of 'TOY' Soldiers and I came into some of his 1930's homecasting molds. I was absolutely taken with those long red boxes that were my favorite birthday & Christmas gifts - however, I always wanted them In positions they didn't offer, so was always trying to make my own. (* W. Britain soldiers)

MWAN: You've been involved in the hobby a long time, and in many different facets; i.e. consumer, manufacturer, designer of wargames figures, the sales end, etc., which facet have you enjoyed the most and why? Is there any facet which you have not enjoyed?

DUKE: The truth of the matter is, I really like organizing them beat ... although sculpting & painting are close seconds. Being in the business of manufacturing and selling them isn't as much fun as you might think! It's work, like any other job and the public is fickle. I never got out of it what I put into it.

MWAN: Do you have any thoughts on how fantasy gaming affected historical miniatures wargaming in the 70's when it came out? Did it affect it as you look back now in the way in which you thought it would?

DUKE: Fantasy Gaming in retrospect has been much more of a plus to us than a hindrance. It allowed much manufacture of historical (lesser-selling lines) to be subsidized and has provided at least some viable new blood to us hard-core historical gamers. Aha! At last I can finally say it! Always had to hold my tongue when I was out selling. We also have made a considerable swing in how we approach our soldiers as: the concept of roleplaying has providesd the inspiration for a ouch more fun-oriented play-style. We describe our games in three categories now (A) Adventure Games (the fun ones - beer & pretzels - Hollywood - a movie set to game, etc); (B) Kriegspiels (more complicated - less fun - probably overly-detailed with less payoff in enjoyment - and above all too time consuming; (C) Simulations (offective "and-table" replicas of actual historical situations). My prejuistce shows as I favor "A" most of all and "C" when it is well done. I currently have little use for the intervening format. I believe computers can and will greatly aid us in providing a truly historical, education and enjoyable experience with a simulation. It should parallel the feeling of reading a David Chandler account. As my good friend, Jim Getz, has pronounced "A simulation should be in qualitative terms and be described with historical adjectives." Another of my close confidantes, John Hill, specified "It must carry the FLAVOR" and finally one of the more recent additions to my inner circle of special people, Howard Whitehouse, presents and implements the strong roleplay element I have been advocating for many years in his excellent SCIENCE VS PLUCK rules concept. The element here is in experiencing, not just watching the game.

MWAN: Is our portion of the hobby, historical miniatures wargaming, where you would have predicted it would be some fifteen or so years ago? If not, Please expand upon your thoughts.

DUKE: Yes, but I had hoped for a greater participation and percentage of afficianados.

MWAN: Do you have thoughts on rules within our hobby as regards the Progression this areas has taken over the years; i.e. 60's featured simple rules with the advent of the 70's it seemed to go to more complexity whereas now perhaps we are returning to a more simple approach again;.

DUKE: We are heading in healthy directions. I know of creative work in Process which can provide a quantum leap for us in the area of rules approaches. Howard Whitehouse is the fre&host thing in town, but watch Jim Getz, Ned Zuparko, and yes, even Paddy Griffith has real merit! We need to get John Hill back in the saddle. He provided some of the best thinking a few years ago. we miss his contribution. And here's a sleeper: Don't be surprised if the name of Tony Adams doesn't soon start to appear on this context. Needless to say, my admired compatriot, Don Featherstone, provided a direct approach to a FUN GAME which should be considered by current developers. It strongly appears the abstract approach gives a more realistic flavor than the very specific. It would be improper to leave out Larry Brom, whose TSATF contribution has provided an extremely healthy impetus. Due to some strange set of circumstances, we have never met; and I must admit to being interested in making this acquaintance. The essence should be fun and adventure! I own up to liking a "researched" type of "movie set to game" approach with elements of roleplaying based upon realism in the genre of an Alan Eckhart or John Jakes historical novel.

MWAN: You have been described by many as a "master scenario designer" in historical gaming. I know personally that some of your approaches in this area have been due to roleplaying. Can you expand a bit on your approach to designing scenarios?

DUKE: Adventure gaming should be an interesting and potentially exiting experience. They key to the game is truly THE SCENARIO. If the participants will "let themselves go" and get into the part - the time will pass quickly and the net result is an exhilarating step into an Indiana Jones movie. I like to provide a goodly measure of unpredictability which can make players desperate at times. Some really creative solutions to problems have come out of the maelstrom of circumstances characters have experienced. I enjoy being involved in games which really "get off the ground." The best of all was probably a WWII game at my place in Dallas where John Hill officiated for OPERATION OGLETHORPE. I was an SS officer (Seifried, of course), Steve Peek (formally Yaquinto) was an American along with Craig Taylor (Avalon Hill). Scott Bobo was a Patton-like American tank leader along with a host of others as Wehrmact and Partisan leaders. Oglethorpe was a German rocket scientist from Peeramunde trying to defect to the Americans. It got so real. We interrogated, disseminated, foiled and attacked each other. What an experience! John Hill and Dave Arneson are two of the best scenario creators I know. In concluding this topic, I feel as much time should be spent on the scenario as on the soldiers and the scenery. Make it live! Provide lots of choices and many probabilities as well as some unexpected interferences. Do this and the gamemaster has as much or more reward as the players.

MWAN: Whom do you think has had the most initial effect on historical wargaming with miniatures?

DUKE: In the beginning: H.G. Wells and Don Featherstone for their writing and inspiration. Jack Scruby, Nevill Dickinson/Steve Carpenter (MINIFIGS) and yours truly (DER KREIGSPIELERS & HERITAGE) for their figurines and efforts to merchandise and distribute them. Dick Bryant (THE COURIER) and Pat Condray (THE ARMCHAIR GENERAL) as well as Scruby for their continuous perseverance in publishing some form of historical fanzine. In the area of sculpturing, Peter Gilder (then HINCHLIFFE), Dick Higgs (MINIFIGS), Stan Glanzer and yours truly (DER KRIEGSPIELERS & HERITAGE). Only yours truly had any interest in scenics (structures or baseboards) in those early days. Accessories were the province of MINIFIGS and DER KRIEGSPIELERS. Last but not least the show managers who put on the first shows. I'm sure I have missed other worthy pioneers and to them I offer my sincere apologies. There are a number of important names appearing somewhat later in our hobby's history than the above but these were probably the most influential in making the proliferation of this grand obsession possible. The rules, the figures, the research on OB's and uniforms - all these elements coupled with the desire to "spread the word" with unbridled enthusiasm started the fire! (* Just can't find any modesty anymore anywhere!)

MWAN: What set of rules has had, in your opinion, the most influence on the hobby?

DUKE: This is a difficult question because various sets of "landmark" rules all contributed to the general flow. Taking the old and the new it is probably a tossup between WRG ANCIENTS (which I do not care for) and TSATF (which I consider an excellent effort). Fred Vietmeyer's CLS (initiated I believe from my old MELEE rules) certainly deserves mention as well.

MWAN: Can you tell us a bit about Fox Hollow and your wargame weekends?

DUKE: Fox Hollow Manor has been the site of many a good wargames session. Set in the picturesque poet-card woods of Southern Wisconsin, it is a sort of Mecca for those who love this hobby/obsession. It is probably what everyone dreamed of but couldn't pull off till they got older and could afford it. Spacious metal shelving behind folding doors house some 30 periods of scenery and soldiery (Editor's Note: must be over a hundred thousand and all well-painted). A six by twelve table with special vita-lite natural sunlite lamps overhead is host to a massive array of scenosquares (2' X 2') providing almost every conceivable permutation of hill, ridge, road and river you could imagine. As for scenic accessories and structures, they are in abundance for most any period you wish. Whole cities and villages, castles and forts, outposts and outhouses are provided in minute detail. And for those who have participated in these Wargame Weekends, background music plus special taped sound effects (Special thanks to Jeff Perrin who has really contributed to this facet). I will enclose a brochure you may send out with this interview if you wish which describes the schedule and typical activities along with some propaganda from friends (Editor's Note: If you are interested, please write to Wargame Weekends, Route 1, Fox Hollow Road, Box 385, Clinton, Wisconsin 53525 and include an SASE).

MWAN: In the 60's and 70's it was my impression that-you were highly responsible for "spreading the word" of historical wargaming. How did you do this; did you enjoy it; what do you think the response was; was it worthwhile to you, etc?

DUKE: Well, I was probably the most visible! I appeared on more TV shows, attended more trade/club etc., shows and did more hobby sore mini-shows than you can shake a stick at. I traveled for over two years in a "traveling show" motor home building up the "grass roots." But probably more than that I sold the "concept of *ADVENTURE GAMING (my coined name for wargaming) to the trade. I'll wager I placed more products in stores than anyone else in those early years, and it wasn't so easy to sell then because it was relatively unknown. Which comes first - chicken or egg? I believe the availability of the product coupled with the articles, rules and research provided by a few enthusiastic folks built this hobby! Later on at HERITAGE, I made the first placements of this genre in what we now call the mass market. We designed special "Paint 'n Play" sets with figurines, paints, brushes, painting guides and simple rules with stories and scenarios. Painted figures and playsets followed with Scenosquares and Scenoramics providing a range of baseboards and structures. Then a line of polymer-acrylic paints and brushes. Next came a series of gamettes using a few miniatures as the tokens. Plastic figurines were offered and then multi-faceted dice which were a joint venture with Lou Zocchi. The pioneering list is long and I must admit, many were premature. As time has passed all have come to fruition in companies formed in later years. It is not necessarily desirable to be the first! While it was heady wine to be the high-profile catalyst of this fledgling industry, it did not pay much of the way of dividends of a monetary nature and it made a disaster of my personal life. The rewards of this gargantuan effort were few. I do remember receiving a plaque from Paul Wood .and his associates at Metro Detroit Garners which touched me greatly. It was an award for "Contribution to the Hobby" and I shall not forget their consideration. I remember a time at HERITAGE shortly before I left to join TSR when I was at low ebb and Tony Adams give me a much needed pat on the back; and the time Bob Pavlik did a Wizard painting picture of yours truly (a turn-a-about as at that time I was usually painting Wizards). These were warmly remembered moments and were greatly appreciated. Most people just felt I was there to put on a show for their benefit and few offered much in response. I must have designed a millennium of figures and created a galaxy of scenics but as these were products to be sold and consumed, it apparently never occurred to many consumers or store owners that some human had accomplished this work. Was it worthwhile? I guess we must ask the countless individuals who have put so much of their soul into this hobby/obsession. Without the pioneers to initiate the concepts..without the designers to sculpture the figurines..without the folks who put on the shows..would many who now enjoy this interest have discovered it's pleasure? (* Dave Arneson later copywrited this name).

MWAN: What do you enjoy most about historical miniatures wargaming?

DUKE: I like it all: the researching, the sculpturing, the organizing and planning, the painting, the scenic construction, the rules development, the scenario conception, the playing and the after-game bull (we describe it as "analysis" but most of all it's a kind of fellowship - and that's probably the best part. I like "Soldier People"..other guys who enjoy doing all the above. I like to be with them, plan with them, play against them, bullshit (read that as "discuss") with them, drink with them, talk on the phone with them. In short, the beet part is the association with kindred spirits. In the style of the Vikings we all tend to build a Hearthtroop of Hirdmen with whom we enjoy fellowship and sharing of our mutual interest. It is appropriate to name the members of my group who play peacably without squabbles and with whom I enjoy association. These worthy goodfellows are: Bob Pavlik, Tony Adams, Jim Getz, Dr. Don Show, Jeff Perrin, Darryl Sheldong, Scotty Bowden, John Hill, Scot Bobo, George Grove, and occasionally guests like Mark Anderson, Dave Arneson, Keith Leidy, Dale Bruner, Stephen Lawrence, and Dan Matheson. open invitations are issued to the following whom I should like to host: Peter Gilder (it's about time as I owe you a dinner), Lynn Bodin (when are you coming?), Steve Carpenter (it's been too long!), Atlee Turner (well worth your time to visit), Todd Fisher (you've earned it!), Ken Bunger (lots to talk about), Joe Micelli (let's play paint & show), Bruce and Jon Seifried (my grown-up sons I seldom can corral for a game - Dallas, Tampa and Boon Atlanta are a long way away), Howard Whitehouse (I've been to Atlanta several times to see you - it's your turn), and of course, Larry Brom. I'm sure there are other interesting fellows I've inadvertently forgotten to list. Perhaps Hal will allow me another invite list a bit later. It would be incomplete if I did not mention the good friendship enjoyed in recent visits from the aforementioned Hal Thinglum, Bill Protz and last but certainly not least, my valued friend, Donald Featherstone for whom we hosted a delightful reception attended by many of the initial Hirdmen. We all had a great time with many personal revelations.

MWAN: You are known as a pioneer with a great number of firsts - all modesty aside, would you list these accomplishments?

DUKE:

1. Initial placement of this category in a broad sweep of retail outlets.

2. First professional packaging: a. Conceived and instituted the bubble pack. b. Developed and placed several series of unpainted boxed sets in general distribution. c. First use of paints, brushes and figurines in a mass-market full color container. d. Introduced the concept of organized unit packaging.

3. First professional point-of-purchase displays and rotary racks with other types of sales aids.

4. Initial placement of this category in chains and the mass market (I'm not sure this was a good thing).

5. First manufacturer to offer store-level shows on a tour basis.

6. Probably the first manufacturer to offer sales training to distributors and their sales personnel.

7. First to develop and market the concept of a quality water-based, polymer acrylic paint with no odor which was fast drying and a water cleanup.

8. Conceived the idea of a faster, easier painting method requiring less skill and providing not only a better result but greater return for your time spent - originally called "Stain Painting."

9. One of the initial pioneers in the development of modern "state-of-the art" figurine master sculpturing techniques and materials.

10. Sculpted "Fantastiques," the initial line of fantasy figures I believe (Steve, when did you release yours? We may have to check this one out). In any event, it heralded a new era of super detailing which caused everyone else to upgrade their level of work.

11. First company in our category to design, build and utilize a professional show display.

12. First company in our category to exhibit at a major professional trade show.

13. The first scenics in the form of decorated 2'X2' baseboards known as "Scenosquares" and "Scenoramics" structures as well as numerous terrain accessories like bushes, walls, bridges, etc. There may be more but that is certainly enough to convey a creative pioneer spirit (and enough to bore even the most curious reader).

MWAN: What do you enjoy least, if anything, about the hobby?

DUKE: Two things! Doing the decorative groundwork on the bases of figurines and argumentative players/rules lawyers.

MWAN: What has kept you involved in the hobby over all these years? What is it about this portion of the hobby that holds your interest?

DUKE: Here is an interest/obsession that requires many skills, abilities, and interests. It is extremely challenging and has both group and individual strengths. One can be an historian, craftsman, designer, organizer, painter, rules theoretician, scenario creator, scenic maker, game developer, player and who knows what else I've left out. I like to do all these things as well as being a collector.

MWAN: Historical wargaming has had a number of prominent individuals who have made sizable contributions over the years. Would you care to recognize the efforts of some of them more specifically aside from the individual you've discussed in our earlier "pioneer" question?

DUKE: I only presented the initial pioneer group in my response to your earlier question and it is appropriate to recognize other valued contributors to our hobby. Scotty Bowden and Jim Getz (EMPIRE GAMES) have provided an extremely realistic and novel two-level approach which manifests itself in their various sets of rules. These are extremely thorough and detailed and have gained many adherents. WRG in the person of Phil Barker and friends obviously has made a strong impact with players either very positive or very negative. These seems to be no mid-ground with these rules! In the area of figurines and sculpture, Tom Meier at RAL PARTHA and Dave Murch at Jack van Slyke's RAFM are to be credited for some fine historical subjects. It is also perhaps time we being to give some real consideration to Atlee Turner's FRONTIER. The breath of this line is awesome and the quality on the ascent. There are many people who have shared this burning obsessive interest or at least participated in such a manner as to have greatly spurred it on; through the years I've had the privilege of association on personal gaming or business relationships with a number of worthy individuals for whom I must express appreciation and give credit for their varied contributions to the growth of our hobby in many areas: David Chandler, Frank Hinchliffe, Roy Belmont-Maitland, Scott Bobo, John Hill, Joyce and Bob Boyle, Cliff Wilson, Jim Dunnigan, Tony Adams, Howard Barasch, Tim Kirk, Arnold Hendrick, Al Younghaus, Greg Scott, Max Carr, Ken Lythgoe, Dana Lombardy, Roy Lipman, Paul Wood, Dick Zittm~erman, Woody Bennett, Bob Bigelow, Harold Johnson, Lou Zocchi, Bill Protz, Pete Petrie, Art Neckermann, Charles Staden, Dean West, Bob Pavlik, the good folks of old at SKYTREX, Ed Small, Charlie Tarbox, Lynn Bodin, Bob Beattie, George Nafziger, Tom Bookwalter, Charlie Sweet, John Edwards, Peter Blum, Bill Murray, Phillip Stearns, Ted Haskell, Craig Taylor, Ray Johnson, Jack van Slyke, Pat Condray, Bill Imrie, Frank Chadwick, Clyde Risley, Dr. Herbert Zima, and Ken Bunger. As to some new faces, it is only recently I have finally made contact with Bob Coggins and Duncan MacFarlane at the recent WARCON Show. And there are those who have advanced to a higher rank: Jack Scruby, Lou Quigley, Peter Young, Pat Patterson and Stan Glanzer. You'll note quite a few Brits as well as some Europeans and Canadians in this list (and I'm sure I've created some embarrassment for yours truly by leaving out some important names I'll think of later and regret omitting). I've been very fortunate in having the opportunity to travel often and widely. I must also confess it has been exciting to have been in "on the ground floor" of our mutual interest. In the beginning there weren't very many of us and we pretty well knew one another. Now, it's a bigger world and there is a satisfaction in seeing how our hobby has grown.

(Editor's Note: Due to Seifried's reticence the following section was obtained from the 25mm figurine - pictured here - who claims to have intimate knowledge of Mr. Seifried's activities. An MWAN exclusive!)

MWAN: Please give us some personal background on Duke Seifried.

Duke Seifried is probably in his mid-fifties and still involved up to his ears in this "obsessive" hobby. He is happily married to his last (1) wife, Billie, and has a second family of two little guys named Dan'l & Benj (identical twins now nine years old) who are already brain-washed in the minutia of The French & Indian War among other subjects). Included in the family is a large dog (yellow lab) named Napoleon (what else?). Duke has been a CEO (twice), an EVP and a few other nasty little three letter word types and is currently the Vice President of a Corporation in Chicago carrying the curious "What do they do?" name of Ventura. It's probably a front for marketing arms to third World Countries or recruiting mercenaries anyway. He is known to strum a guitar, pluck a bass fiddle, beat on a drum and massage(?) a piano? In his early life he got through college (Miami University in Oxford, Ohio) and his first family by augmenting his meager income from early black and white TV (WLW) (producing, directing, talent and occasional (2) sweeping) by teaching at music stores and entertaining at hotels and supper clubs. He was even on the road at one time. Imagine Duke singing, playing, dancing and telling stores! Next it was advertising with jingle writing and production plus some odd bits of film background music composition and arranging. The Exhibit and Display business followed this with notable excursions to World's Fairs abroad.

And then: The Hobby Business became the pressing goal! DER KRIEGSPIELERS in Ohio followed by HERITAGE USA in Dallas followed by TSR, Inc. (Dungeons and Dragons (r) in Lake Geneva and finally Creative Concepts (consulting to major Toy Companies). In his former life he raised a numerous family including two sons: Bruce and Jon - now 30ish (equally as brainwashed with the minutia of the Napoleonic Wars & J.R.R. Tolkien) and a bevy of attractive females featuring Shari - a very talented figure painter, Sami - a PR super saleswoman, Lori the dancer and Shelly the teacher.

Duke lives in Foxhollow Manor located in the Woods of Wisconsin which has been the setting for some memorable Wargame Weekends. It is somewhat of a "Mecca" for those who love soldiers and war games. While he may not have the largest collection of soldiers on this continent, it is surely one of the best and broadest in content and quality. Scenics abound and Duke seems to enjoy sculpturing, painting, scenic construction, researching and rules writing/development with almost equal enthusiasms/abandon.

He is an eccentric, somewhat peculiar; and given to considerable excesses with this hobby/obsession! He appears to be acquainted with almost all of the legendary personalities of this hobby and from time to time contributed much to what we might describe as the pioneering phase of our hobby.

FOOTNOTES TO ABOVE: (1) There have been several but he assures us that this one is the best. (2) Well, not exactly, but he probably functioned in most every area in those early days.

Duke Siefried MWAN Honoree of 1989

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