I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for those who run auctions. Yes they are a lot of work, but then most who run them do an auction to get the highest price for what they have rather than just have a sale with reasonable prices. If you want to squeeze the last dollar out of the market, it should take more work. I'm tired of hearing those who run auctions complain about the problems. There is also an implicit statement that those who run the auctions are good and it is the others who are goofballs.

For what it's worth, I once had the person running the auction back out because he received a higher bid after the auction was supposedly closed! So there are goofballs on both sides. I've had people running sales turn them into auctions since they underestimated the market for certain items.

So, you agree with Karl Marx's economic theory of pricing then? Actually, a reasonable price is one that a willing buyer pays a willing seller. An auction is the free market at work and at its best.

No I don't (agree with Karl Marx's economic theory of pricing -ed). I just object to those who run auctions and then complain that the extra effort involved is justification for preferential treatment of some type. My point is that they choose to run an auction to get the extra last dollar of value out of the items. You don't get something for nothing. If you want the extra couple of dollars, then you have to work harder. The bidders and non-participants don't owe them anything for running the auction.

OK, I can and do buy that. They should not complain that they have to do extra work to get a higher price. They make their own economic decision here, and presumably decided that the extra work is worth the higher price they expect to get. Still, from the market's standpoint, a reasonable price (in terms of value of the item) is one that a willing buyer pays a willing seller, auction or no.

Bottom line is I agree with your point. If sellers want to squeeze a higher price by working harder, they shouldn't complain that they are working too hard. I do not begrudge them the higher price they may get for the extra effort.

Agreed on the above. Sometimes an auction is useful to determine what a reasonable price is in the first place. I'm auctioning off a copy of FASA's Battledroids right now because I have no idea what it's worth. On the other hand, running an auction for a common item like Luftwqffe or any of the old Avalon Hill games seems kind of silly ... just set your price at five or seven bucks and move the thing.

Yeah, but for some reason people seem to like bidding in auctions. An example would be (name deleted - ed)'s posts for games for sale on rec.games.board.marketplace: the prices may be slightly high ($1 - $3) but it looks like nobody ever buys his stuff, whereas if he ran an auction he could probably get rid of all of it close to what he's asking.

I generally agree, although reasonable should be based on more than a single sale. After all, your sample might be a particularly ignorant buyer, or a particularly obsessed buyer. Someone else has mentioned that people seem to enjoy or even prefer the auction over a straight sale. I guess that's not surprising in a hobby where a key element is participation in competitive activities! We even refer to those with the highest bids as winners. Of course, that competitiveness is part of the reason for the inflation of prices. Yes, I know that some people have gotten away with steals at auctions, for whatever reason. But when we've had the "look at the bargain I got" threads, almost no one mentioned getting one at an auction.

I do accept that when I auction something I'll get more profit than if I sell it for a fixed price. Sometimes I'll sell directly to avoid going through the hassle of an auction (I did this with a copy of the Arkham Horror ... probably sold it for fifty bucks less than I would have made at auction, but it was quick, and the guy who wanted it seemed like a nice guy who would really enjoy the game, so I didn't mind). It really depends on how much time I have for farting around on the net (it runs in cycles).

I am completing my second auction and have had a great experience with 99% of those who participated. After Christmas during my first auction, I had a bidder who won some items and then backed out. He said he had some unexpected bills and I understood. In the past few weeks I have been running another auction. This same bidder asked to be allowed to participate and I allowed him to enter. When it came time to settle up, he backed out again. After repeating the mantra: "Foot me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on in 30 times, I decided to solicit the opinions of those more worldly than myself Naturally, I came to this group. Should I place the name of this garner on the net to prevent him from doing this to other auctioneers? Should I ignore his actions and run another auction? Those of you who have run auctions know the effort involved and I am of two minds in the matter. What are the thoughts of the group?

Interesting ... I guess I'd track him down, kill him, hollow out his skull, and use it for a goblet. No, wait, the doctor told me I shouldn't talk about those things any more... Seriously, I guess I'd make your policy about backing out known up front in the Auction Rules.

What that policy is, is up to you. I'm not too keen on besmirching anyone on the net in these days of litigation madness. I certainly would never do business with this fellow again, and politely but firmly refuse any future bid sent to me by him. I would also contact the next highest bidder, inform him of the back-out, and let him know that the item is freed up at the lower price. It's a risk of doing net auctions, and not as uncommon as you would think. I've dropped out of auctions before, never as a leading bidder (like, say, when the price for Panzer Leader gets to $30 or so, which I would consider ridiculous, I politely send a "too rich for my blood, count me out of this bidding" message to the auctioneer.) Of course, that only occurs before the game is won, never after I've won it. The guy may have had legitimate financial difficulty (in which case, why was he in an auction in the first place?) so I would be very careful about how you would phrase a public posting.

Someone who backed out a second time? Post his sleazy name. Accept no more bids. Be glad he didn't write you a check. Can you imagine how that might have worked out.

Just ban him from participating again.

After two times I would politely refuse his bids, out of courtesy to the other bidders. Of course, the person who really suffers is the guy with the second highest bid, artificially inflated. You could sell it to him for his last price, but I think you have to tell him that his true highest price was flushed out by a flake. He has every right to be annoyed and ask for a new auction, which is up to you, I suppose. I've never backed out of either side of an internet trade, even when I wised up before the transaction was complete, and I don't think I ever would unless it were a real mortgage-payment-missing- magnitude problem. But of course, that's the kind of thing one should see coming and not participate in auctions. So cheaters and flakes, my suggestion is not to let them get to you but quietly pull back. This gives you the best protection. Save aggression for the cardboard people, who have no lawyers. Oh, and don't let them get to you.

Well, it seems pretty unanimous, so my comment is redundant (not that it will stop me from making it, anyway). I apologize in advance for the very long post. I've been on both the buying and selling end of internet auctions. To do an auction right requires a great deal of attention. As a bidder, I appreciate a conscientious auctioneer. I know it is a lot of work. However, I've gotta say that the one I conducted I thought was a hoot. Most of the guys that bid were cool, and at the end of things, I was happy to see my games go to (presumably) good homes.

On the other hand, I had a couple of flakes and sinners myself, people who backed out of bids or who dropped off the face of the earth once notified that they won. I decided like other posters to take it with a grain of salt and move on. When you start posting stuff like that out on the web, more often than not you end up in a pissing match. I've seen it a number of times and it ain't pretty, I think that ultimately it affects the original poster and his relationship with the other frequenters as much as it does the intended target. In other words, I think you ultimately hurt yourself, even though your intentions are good and your cause is just. The only time I ever went after a guy was when I traded Regatta for Pax Britannica to some fellow in Sweden a couple of years back. A trade takes the most trust of all, as you send your game with the belief that the other guys is doing the sarne thing. Even more so in this case, as a trade with a foreign gamer required much higher shipping costs (in this case, likely more than the game was worth).

This guy led me on a merry chase for a couple of months, saying he sent it, then it was returned due to insufficient postage, then he resent it, then he got my game thank you very much, then dead air. No response to any emails after that. Finally I posted a query. more to find out whether he died or something. Still no response.

A couple of months later, this fellow has the nerve to post something on the net regarding a service he provides on his server. Evidently, he runs or did run a very active server on the game Diplomacy. I sent one more email to him without getting a response, then I posted my one and only Bad Trader Alert. That was two years ago, and I have never heard from him again. I did get a profanity-filled response from someone else for my attack on (name deleted -ed) and how he was far too busy and important a person to send my game.

It obviously came from a nut, probably the gentleman, himself using someone else's email. The moral of the story? My post got me nowhere, got me all sweaty and agitated in delivering his supposed death sentence, and got me a nasty reply which really bummed me out. That's it. The only guy who suffered was me. I managed to eventually acquire Pax from another source a few months later and you know what? I still haven't played it.

Bottom line: bad traders, flakes and cheaters are an unfortunate part of the scene. They are the trade-off for the enjoyable (and 99% of the time rewarding) opportunity to participate and/or conduct an internet auction, trade or sale.

My rule of thumb for any net transaction: never chase a flake. The committed buyers will stay in touch with you, and offer good explanations when they can't come through. Anyone that ducks and weaves on a game auction isn't worth the investment of trust required for a private net transaction. I find that by the time I complete an auction or a trade negotiation, I know the other person well enough to ship my games without even waiting for the check to clear (or even to arrive, in some cases). Haven't been burned yet ... and if I am, well, they're just games. I'm not selling them to make a living. I'm really just trying to place old titles with someone who might enjoy them, and make enough on the side to buy new stuff that attracts my interest. Sony the guy flaked on you. It is a pain in the neck to run an auction.

Goofballs come with the territory.