This is da Phil's letter from last issue

Dear Terry,

A bit for SAGA. No, Terry and Jamie are not "hostile" to D.B.M. - they are unconverted. "Hostile" is when you don't print anything on the set you hate, or make snide comments on it without allowing a reply, or print one paragraph of the reply along with a page of Editorial rebuttal, all experiences I have had. Loyalty to old friends, favorite garments (may I mention The T&R personality warping Hat?), [HEY, I resemble that...-Fish] lost causes and sets of rules with which you are content are all admirable. And everyone should write their own rules once, if only to appreciate the difficulties. I do personally think it a shame that two gamers whose favorite armies are cunning Normans and wild Scots are depriving these of the opportunity of really terrorizing opponents, but that is how the cookie crumbles, or as we Romans put it "sic friatur crustum dulce".

The way to convert players is to persuade them to play a game against a friendly, helpful opponent who will explain the nuances as they come up and who will lose, expressing chagrin at being outplayed. I am rather good at this, since for some reason people are not surprised at my losing.

Conversely, do not let them play their first games against win-at-all-cost jerks who measure in millimeters and invent strange tactical practices to exploit what they think of as loopholes.

The last resort is to seize Terry and Jamie and chain them to the table and make them play a DBM game in public with a kindly knowledgeable umpire to explain the difficult. [So this is were my daughter gets her violent tendencies heh? I should have known exposing her to Phil when she was less than a month old was going to have ramifications-Fish] Whoops!, less simple, bits. If they then do not utter loud praises, the game must be repeated with each being allowed supporters to distract the other side. Maybe Terry's could continuously read aloud rave reviews of other manufacturers' figures and Jamie be assisted by Ali [aforementioned daughter] throwing custard pies (small accurate ones of course)? She will vote for that.

This is my letter to da Phil

Dear Phil;

I couldn't get this letter off to you before SAGA so I didn't want to publish it. This is obviously in response to your letter. I would like to print both next SAGA if you do not mind.

My good friend Phil was kind enough to write and this letter is in response to his letter published last issue. Surprisingly it pains me to disagree with Phil Barker. I have always found, for over a decade, that he and I have been in lock step on any issue. In the past I have championed not amending his system without his written permission which is now the position of NASAMW and carried out with due diligence by Scott Holder.

Unlike many others, I believe his writing style is organized and unusually precise and find more often than not that the confusion is the readers. I believe that Phil has contributed more to "the hobby" than any other person; living or dead. No exceptions. I have found him to be generous to a fault with his time and far more patient than most people. He has always been tolerant of others and his attitude has always been "live and let live." I have never heard him speak harshly of another system and he has told me that any system, even those he didn't write should be commended if people enjoy them.

What I find disturbing is Phil's tolerance towards others does not extend to his own systems. Everyone who has played both DBM and WRG 7th say they are completely different games, appealing to two different types of players. Through WRG's failure to support 7th, [after ten years 7th still doesn't have its own complete army lists.

Also I understand that 7th will no longer be printed...which gives me an idea...Phil would WRG surrender the 7th system? And please no cop out of talk to the Keep...] they are attempting to choose my system for me. And this is like a sharp stick in the back, doubly so as it comes from WRG/Phil. I and many others have always resisted when others have attempted to dictate what game I should play and how I should play it. NASAMW has lost three Presidents for exactly that behavior. Now along comes a friend who indirectly is attempting the same thing. Phil laments the loss of Terry and I to DBM. I would point out that Brian Lewis, Keith Wilkes, Vic Fitzpatrick, Dave Saunders, DickHunchanik, Ewan McNay, Chris Goldsmith, Jake Kovel, Pat Lewis and his two sons, Greg Hauser, Tim Brown and Dave Steier to name a few, are all other 7th gamers that despise DBM and will or have quit ancients rather than play DBM. The NASAMW has suffered an incredible drop in membership since the dropping of 7th by WRG and its replacement by DBM.

I believe it is more than coincidence. Is it that 7th and its complexity attracts a more motivated, task oriented individual while DBM appeals to a less driven and more casual gamer? DBMers who take umbrage at disappointed that a business decision has apparently been made to pull the plug on 7th and replace it with DBM as I believe there is room for both. Further if WRG has no further use for 7th, please, please turn it over to those that do.

As for DBM; there are several basic problems. First and foremost is the desire [or lack thereof] to learn it. I do not even own a current copy of the rules. Why? Once I learned certain troop types cannot die in hand to hand combat with other troops, regardless of how badly they are defeated, I didn't need to know anything else. That takes the worry out of combat for those guys.

So where do we stand? I like and am content with WRG 7th and have no desire to learn a new system. I resent WRG for not supporting it and hope that they would release it to someone who would. I am concerned for the future of ancients gaming in the U.S. as I see it in decline. The people who have driven the hobby over here are being squeezed out, not by a better product but by a foreign corporations decision to eliminate an old one. The obvious question is what do I intend to do about it? To save 7th, one would have to destroy DBM forcing WRG to republish 7th. That means not attending or sponsoring DBM events and ultimately pitting 7th gamers against DBMers. I enjoy the friends I have made too much to do this and would rather, like many others quit and have the memories

This is da Phil's response

Dear Jamie The facts on 7th are these. It is still available and we have 1,000 still in stock. Monthly sales are about 25, mostly to the U.S. or South Africa. Total U.K. sales so far this year are 5. At this rate, stocks will run out in three years and we would be mad to reprint.

As to the reduction in NASAMW membership, my theory is that the cause lies in the internet. Write to a wargames magazine with a comment on rules and you get printed in 1-3 months and get rebuttals in the next issue 2 months later. Put a comment on one of the wargames net pages and you get 10 pages of comments next day! The future for magazines mainly commenting on the rules would appear bleak. However, magazines with a strong historical content should thrive.

More on the Subject of NASAMW

NASAMW Response to Jamie Fish
Jamie Response to NASAMW