Mike's comments are very interesting, but the point is not to agree or disagree with me. I only quote references and just try to bring out what is pertinent. Many times, in spite of the appearances we are not that far apart. The subject or penetration is actually simple, if one is willing to forget what is done by many other rules. It is the simple fact that penetration is arbitrary given as a capability for a certain caliber to penetrate so many ranks etc. We do not have such a concept in our rules and yet we acknowledge the greater power of penetration of the larger calibers. We allow the possibility of a greater number of casualties for a 12-pounder than for a 6-pounder etc. That is the simple way of doing it. We also acknowledge the possibility of greater casualties for a compact target as Mike tells us above. We just allow the use of an additional die in the case of a gun firing against a target more than two ranks deep that is a column or a square. I really don't see any reason to change a system that is giving satisfaction and that all the members know well. Now, to go back to firing a shell or howitz at low angle, the howitz as the effect of a ball before it explodes. The question is to know where the explosion takes place (if not a dud). The effect of the shell as a ball should be about the effect of a 12-pound ball. What I am saying here is well in agreement with de Tousard: "..in battles the howitz has the effect of a ball on the first line, and of a bomb on the second." (ref. de Tousard volume 2. page 270). The same reference also tells us page 271,"...the devastation which is expected to produce as a bomb, becomes merely a chance, since it may happen to burst at 60 or 80 yards etc..." That is well in agreement with BRITISH SMOOTH-BORE ARTILLERY page 56 which speaks about the unreliability of the fuze of shells and the difficulty to explode a shell (or a spherical case shot) where desired. Furthermore, examples of shells causing destruction before exploding can be found in several books. One instance is given in the booklet BLUCHER'S ARMY, Men-at-Arms series, pages 29 and 30: The damage that a single shell could do to the close-order formations of those days is horribly illustrated by an incident earlier in the same day. Wentzel Krimer, the senior surgeon of a battalion in Jagow's Brigade, was talking to a captain when a shell came over from ahead of us, exploded instantly, smashed an officer and a sergeant in the chest and in the head, and broke the legs of 12 men in the column. He was still hard at work when a second shell came over carried off the whole of the upper part of the adjutant's body and decapitated three men. Then it rolled as far as the Silesian rifle battalion drawn up behind us and caused considerable casualties there." So, in the light of the above quotations, it is quite obvious that casualties from an howitz were not negligeable because of the ball effect. The effect of the burst if it takes place is only a bonus. Howitzer fire at low angle should consequently be treated as the fire from an ordinary gun with the exploding shell bonus somewhere alter To conclude, they were several types of licornes, small, medium and heavy. It's a complicated subject. I am trying to accumulate data on them. The licornes did not fire high trajectory shells and were apparently more precise than other Nations howitzers because of their much longer barrels. For the time being they can be handled lie low firing howitzers. Well, I don't-think we were that far apart at all. We essentially meant the same. Perhaps in different words and means, but essentially the same. Well, Mike just came up with a good rule. Thank you very much in advance. Back to Empire, Eagles, & Lions Table of Contents Vol. 1 No. 20 Back to EEL List of Issues Back to MagWeb Master Magazine List © Copyright 1977 by Emperor's Headquarters This article appears in MagWeb.com (Magazine Web) on the Internet World Wide Web. Other articles from military history and related magazines are available at http://www.magweb.com